Intro letter
Explanation of transcript
TRANSCRIPT: Conversation between Heads of IMF, World Bank and American University
Rights Action's Comments

FROM THE INDEPENDENT MEDIA CENTER OF PHILADELPHIA
Wednesday July 19, @07:47 PM
Conversation between Heads of IMF, World Bank and American University
by Anonymous

For a copy of the whole conversation, as transcribed by the Independent Media Center of Philadelphia, please go to NISGUA's website: http://www.nisgua.org/AU.html

For an explanation of initials and transcription markings, go back a page.

Skip to comments specifically pertaining to CHIXOY DAM PROJECT IN GUATEMALA.

-------------------------THE TRANSCRIPT: ------------------------

F: How's it going so far Jim?

W: I think it's OK. I think the press conference yesterday went quite well.

F: I saw you on the evening news.

W: Was that all right?

F: Yeah. You conveyed exactly the sense that... that I think our people have as well.

W: Which is?

F: You know, that it's difficult being accused of all these things.

W: Yeah, I said that.

F: Yeah, no, I... that's what I /saw there on the program/. I am trying still to figure out how to deal with the Ann Pettifors of the world that come in and give you a long lecture which is 'You guys are arrogant, you're unfeeling, you're unlistening' and then 'we care about the poor.' And it's a psychological device, and there must be some way of switching the debate and I was trying to figure out afterwards; I thought one way next time is to say 'let's just agree: you're morally superior to us, [Someone: Hmm.] and now let's get on with the discussion.' [. . . ]

F: It's actually interesting. What is... /in that/ implicitly a lot of people in the press conferences are asking 'why now?' I don't have a good answer, do you?

W: I think it's post-Seattle. I think this a clear follow-on to the Seattle victory.

AU: Well why did Seattle bubble up so quickly and dramatically?

W: I think that is a fear of globalization, it's a fear of the unknown. There was a lot of... that did get some labor people as well, [AU: Right] there was a mixture there of trade issues...

AU: Right, right.

W: And other issues [garbled, interruption]

[. . .]

F: Yeah, but it's interesting that it should happen now at a time of real prosperity, and uh...

AU: At a time in which your institutions are doing more than ever before to be responsive to some of their concerns.

W: Right.

AU: That's what so odd. [pause, eating] [. . .]

AU: [sneeze] Pardon. Do you regard one of your institutions being more susceptible than the other to /?/

F: I suspect we each feel more susceptible than the other, but [AU: Ha ha ha] I'm not sure. They go off to Jim for a variety of things that /aren't like/, they don't have a chance to go off for us for, but I suspect that the underlying level of dislike may be /higher/ for the Fund than the Bank. Am I right? I'm not [AU: /Oh, that's inter.../] sure what you think, Jim.

W: I think probably that's right.

AU: Really?

W: /?/

F: They can get Jim on things like... they're after them on pipeline projects on [AU?: right] totally unreasonable...

W: After me on Tibet. They're, they get [AU?: Oh, yeah.] after us on, [F: More on specifics.] on dams, and specifics.

AU: Do they move to the higher level of the, the concept of what you're trying to accomplish [Both: No, no, no.] /there/ in a complicated way; they never get to that. Just black and white.

[COMMENTS RELATED TO THE CHIXOY DAM PROJECT IN GUATEMALA]

W: It's all ad hominem, it's all, ah, [Someone agreeing] they've brought in a [sic] indigenous person who was displaced in 1975, and whose [AU: /Yeah/] family has been ruined, [AU: Right.] And they'll then blame us for the problems of Guatemala, [AU: Right.] And we'll say that there was a civil war for 32 years, and tens of thousands of people were killed down there, and this probably had nothing to do with the project, [AU: /Right/] but then someone will write a book, um... it makes it very difficult to answer [AU: Oh, yeah, right.] so you continue to try and deal with the specifics, with the Chixoy Indians, which we're doing, [AU: Right.] And then they agree, which they did, and we solved the whole thing, and now there's another Chixoy Indian coming /'out' or 'now'/ saying 'Well, we appreciated what you did, but now we want reparations and damages.' [AU: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.] and so they've got a [AU: You've got to start all over again.] an Indian here who's very keen to do it. And these indigenous people, I'm not suggesting they didn't have problems, but they're also very smart. [AU: Sure.] So they come up and they think, 'it's a pretty good way to make a few bucks', ah. [AU: Right, right.]

F: And you can't say anything about the victims /you know, it's.../

AU: No, it's off limits.

AU?: /Yeah,/ completely.

F: /Well,/ a lot of the discussion is on the level of 'there is a problem and you are present therefore you are guilty.' [. . .]

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Intro letter
Explanation of transcript
TRANSCRIPT: Conversation between Heads of IMF, World Bank and American University
Rights Action's Comments